Drive gears , and more cams

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Mike Van Veghten
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Drive gears , and more cams

Post by Mike Van Veghten » 18 Feb 2012, 23:04

Lets see if I remember everything...!

While picking up a few cams today, we talked about a lot of stuff...(including the great looking girl working at the burger place we went for lunch.....!).

1. More cams ~
A few of you have asked about a second...or just more cams in general.
AFTER...this run of cams is complete, shipped and received, additional cams can/will be made available.
While they'd "like" to run one piece cams, I'm not positive it's ok to do without some verification that they're one piece won't chew up the distributor gear. He's pretty positive they'll be fine........
Also, because of the fact that they are willing to now do one cam at a time, and expect this from now on, the cam cost will be $460.00 (rather than the original $400.00). In reality...still really not a bad deal.
The delivery time will be in the 8/14 week timeframe....depends on a lot of things..

2. A catalog....sorta ~
I now have a paper copy of all of their lobe profiles. I will try to put together an Excel spreadsheet of all the lobes that will fit the Stude combination...e.g. (that is)...no .540" lobe lift...!
You will still have to "locate" the opening closing points and the lobe center offset. As before, another catalog can help with this.
But at least now the lift and duration will be available.
If Sonnys site will allow a cut and paste, that's how I'll post tor everyone it when done.

3. Cam drive gears ~
On one hand, they haven't done much with the gear end of things yet.
On the other hand, we discussed a lot of possibilities today.

This is where we ended the drive gear discussion ~
An aluminum cam gear hub, a steel bolt-on (the adjustable part) ring gear.....along with a matching steel crank gear.......!
Got your attention..?
The current thought is, to make the gear pair with a straight cut tooth pattern. A .500" or .625" wide cam gear with a .687" or .750" wide crank gear. The "hub" of the crank gear will be the same as the stock length/width to locate the damper properly, but the tooth area will be trimmed.
He showed me a Top Fuel cam gear....it's only .625" wide...and that holds valve springs with 550+# of seat pressure.
We both pretty much agreed that the big width of the Stude gear is because of the light duty fiber materal used for the original gears. They wear fast...add material to make them live... The aluminum was just basically a copy (my opinion) of the fiber so no other changes were needed.
While he didn't want to guarentee that the noise level would be zero...he's sure that they won't sound like the Pete Jackson gear drives..!

I think that hits most of it...
Let me know your thoughts on any/all of the above (yea....on this thread...)

Oh yea....there's still a BIG hand full of cams to be made.... Unfortunatly for us little guys, the real racers get pushed to the top of the wait list, but ours are comming.

Mike

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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by starliner62 » 19 Feb 2012, 00:51

I could live with straight cut gears.

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Mike Van Veghten
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by Mike Van Veghten » 20 Feb 2012, 15:17

So I can assume that everyone is ok with a straight cut cam drive assembly as noted above ?
No questions, or not interested ?

Mike

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Alan
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by Alan » 20 Feb 2012, 17:14

We are interested, just need more information and cost.

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Mike Van Veghten
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by Mike Van Veghten » 20 Feb 2012, 18:48

Not much more info than paragraph no. 3 above. fairly self explanatory, except for the fine details, that won't have much effect on anything but the actual manufacturing of the assembly.

Cost...down the road a bit...but the cam gear should be around or a little less than the cost of the current alum. Stude gear, with the crank gear being...no idea yet.

We may do this different...I may setup to just buy...maybe 10/15 sets, and anyone that wants one..just calls and asks for one..

Mike

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64Avanti
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by 64Avanti » 21 Feb 2012, 00:18

Mike,

What is the reason for wanting to use a straight spur gear vs a helical spur gear? Is this just a cost issue?
David Livesay

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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by diggerdavem » 21 Feb 2012, 11:06

Hi Mike,
If you would give me the shipping cost to me and the total increase on the camshaft I'll send you a check for same. My address is 63499 Elm rd. Mishawaka,In. 46544
Thanks
diggerdave

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Mike Van Veghten
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by Mike Van Veghten » 21 Feb 2012, 11:34

Dave ~
Will do.
No increase in cam cost...just tax and shipping (with insur. for ($400.00).


David, all ~

A coupla things...no particular order -
1. Weight.
An all steel gear the size of the stocker would be huge. I know that a few of you already have roller cams with the valve springs to go with it. I personally just don't care for the 200lb/250lb spring loads on the soft (alum.) gear.
Plus lightening the crank gear is also plus.

2. Friction.
Lotsa friction on those long teeth. A power robber.

3. Manufacturing time.
= cost.

Mike

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64Avanti
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by 64Avanti » 22 Feb 2012, 01:41

Spur gears either straight or helical running parallel generate very little friction since the gear contact motion is mostly rolling not sliding. The power loss is normally about 1%. Also the width won't affect the amount of friction. The friction forces = the force per unit areas x coeficient of friction x the area. If you double the area the force per unit are is cut in half so the total force due to friction is the same.

So having a wider gear will not impact the power losses in the gear set.

On the other hand helical gears running at 90 degrees, like a distributor, have almost pure sliding motion and that is why they wear and have much higher losses.
David Livesay

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Mike Van Veghten
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by Mike Van Veghten » 22 Feb 2012, 09:56

More moving surface..more friction. All gear movement has friction.
Nature

Mike

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64Avanti
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by 64Avanti » 22 Feb 2012, 19:41

Mike,
Look at my equation. It is the unit pressure times the area. For example when you double the area the unit pressure is cut in half that is the physics behind it. The frictional forces stay the same. A proper spur gear design has only a very small amount of sliding action it is mostly rolling that is why gear efficiency for spur gears is up arround 94% or more. This of course depends on how accurate the gear is and the finish. If the gear profile is wrong then you get more sliding motion than you should. However none of this is dependent on the width of the gear.
David Livesay

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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by 64Avanti » 22 Feb 2012, 19:59

I should mention that the 94% efficiency is for a rather poor quality gear. The spur gears that I have been involved with are at least 98% efficient.
David Livesay

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Tom Osborne
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by Tom Osborne » 22 Feb 2012, 21:18

The truth of it is that the helical cut is best for heavy loads, and they are smoother in operation by design. They grab oil and swipe it across the contact pattern. Gear pitch has been resonsible for reducing friction by huge amounts in certain applications. Check out the new Strange 9" chevy conversion carrier for Ford housings. It works. Tom O. 0
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Mike Van Veghten
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by Mike Van Veghten » 23 Feb 2012, 13:37

Anyone interested in this or should I drop it ?
It may cost more, but at least two will be done..!?

Mike

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Alan
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Re: Drive gears , and more cams

Post by Alan » 23 Feb 2012, 15:11

I'll bite.

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