Low Tech Stude Workshop Project

Share pictures of your workspace/garage/shop, as well as any information about tools, tips and tricks that you have/use around your shop.
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Tom Osborne
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Post by Tom Osborne » 15 Jan 2010, 20:03

You could save some serious three phase cash hookup , up here its around a couple of grand or more. Install a small gas motor 4cylinder car motor up to the compressor, this requires an electric clutch that gets hooked into the pressure regulator switch min/max. You need 3 phase for welding and heavy milling tools that have 10-15-20 hp and high torque load requirements. and up. Like was previously mentioned. If your shop is situated on commercial property, then its best, as you get to write nearly all your electrical expenses off or a big chunk , also your electrical bills will be much lower and rated commercial , you probably know all that. Tom O.
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Bob Andrews
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Post by Bob Andrews » 15 Jan 2010, 20:14

This is my home shop where 3-phase isn't available. I just have 100 amp service. I did verify that the motor is 10 HP. I don't have any machine equipment that takes major current, the compressor is really about it.

I'm wondering if there's any way I can make this compressor work; if I can it would certainly make all the air pressure and volume I'd ever need. Never had great air, and there are lots of good air tools I'd buy if I could run them!
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Kdancy
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Post by Kdancy » 17 Jan 2010, 17:26

Bob Andrews wrote:This is my home shop where 3-phase isn't available. I just have 100 amp service. I did verify that the motor is 10 HP. I don't have any machine equipment that takes major current, the compressor is really about it.

I'm wondering if there's any way I can make this compressor work; if I can it would certainly make all the air pressure and volume I'd ever need. Never had great air, and there are lots of good air tools I'd buy if I could run them!
Bob,
I've been running my 15hp two cylinder dual stage compressor with a rotary 3 phase converter since the mid 80's. 3 phase saves electric bill money and the 3 phase stuff is easy to get. I run my spray booth fans (3), compressor and a drill press off the same converter.

Bob Andrews
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Post by Bob Andrews » 17 Jan 2010, 21:04

Great to hear, Kdancy. Any further info/sources would be great. It's a goal for 2010 to figure out how to get that big compressor running- it's the heart of any decent-size shop :idea:
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PackardV8
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Post by PackardV8 » 17 Jan 2010, 21:29

3 phase saves electric bill money
Yes, if there is a three-phase service and three-phase motors running directly off three-phase.

No, if having to run a 20hp three-phase rotary converter to generate the third leg for a 15hp motor; it doesn't save electricity to run two three-phase motors instead of one single-phase.

Maybe, the total long-term cost is lower if the three-phase equipment is bought for enough less than the single-phase would cost.

thnx, jack vines

Bob Andrews
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Post by Bob Andrews » 17 Jan 2010, 21:50

Yeah, no 3-phase service here is the problem. The way I see it I have 3 options:

1. Figure out how to run that 10 HP 3-phase motor without 3-phase service

2. Buy and install a motor I can use

3. Scrap the whole idea and try to sell the compressors

My helper tells me I paid $400 each which is pretty cheap; but if I can't use 'em there's no telling if there's a market for them even at that. Still, I have to make that determination. We shall see I guess...
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Kdancy
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Post by Kdancy » 18 Jan 2010, 07:38

PackardV8 wrote:
3 phase saves electric bill money
Yes, if there is a three-phase service and three-phase motors running directly off three-phase.

No, if having to run a 20hp three-phase rotary converter to generate the third leg for a 15hp motor; it doesn't save electricity to run two three-phase motors instead of one single-phase.

Maybe, the total long-term cost is lower if the three-phase equipment is bought for enough less than the single-phase would cost.

thnx, jack vines
Totally disagree on this one. During the times when I am running the spray booth every day, (2 3/4hp and one 3hp motors) and the compressor (15hp) plus my other shop equipment that is running on single phase, the highest bill I've ever had on the shop has been around 60.00-70.00. Prior to that, my single phase 7.5 hp compressor would run the bill past that on a regular basis and that was also without the 3ph booth fans. I don't know or can't tell you why, all I know is what the electric bill says I need to pay and I'm quite happy with it.
I do agree that if you are only an occasional user, you just need to get a single phase set up as you won't re-coupe the extra start up cost.
Bob, where are you located? If close enough, I'd be interested in purchasing the compressors.

Bob Andrews
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Post by Bob Andrews » 18 Jan 2010, 10:19

Kdancy wrote: Bob, where are you located? If close enough, I'd be interested in purchasing the compressors.
Central NY state :?

We go to FL usually a couple times a year. Maybe I could bring 'em on my trailer sometime.
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Kdancy
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Post by Kdancy » 18 Jan 2010, 10:24

Bob Andrews wrote:
Kdancy wrote: Bob, where are you located? If close enough, I'd be interested in purchasing the compressors.
Central NY state :?

We go to FL usually a couple times a year. Maybe I could bring 'em on my trailer sometime.
I just pm'd you.
Let me know!

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PackardV8
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Post by PackardV8 » 18 Jan 2010, 11:40

Yes, again, 3-phase motors are inherently simpler and more efficient when run directly on three phase power. It would take an electrical engineer to calculate the amperage loads and explain why your current electrical costs are lower running two 3-phase motors instead of one single-phase, but my guess would be your 3-phase compressor is an industrial unit that much more efficient design than the single phase it replaced.

thnx, jack vines

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Kdancy
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Post by Kdancy » 18 Jan 2010, 13:04

PackardV8 wrote:Yes, again, 3-phase motors are inherently simpler and more efficient when run directly on three phase power. It would take an electrical engineer to calculate the amperage loads and explain why your current electrical costs are lower running two 3-phase motors instead of one single-phase, but my guess would be your 3-phase compressor is an industrial unit that much more efficient design than the single phase it replaced.

thnx, jack vines
I originally ran a 10hp compressor made in the 1940's on it for quite a while, then got a good deal on this 15hp, also at least a 20+ year old compressor. Both were cheaper to run then the much newer 7hp single phase I had running on before them. The electrical engineer friend that helped me wire up the rotary phase converter, did the same thing in his shop. He told me before hand that I would be surprised at the low electric bill. He was right.

Bob Andrews
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Post by Bob Andrews » 18 Jan 2010, 15:03

So Kerry, just to clarify, you're saying you DO have 3-phase service you're using, and not CONVERTING 3-phase motors to run on single- right?
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Kdancy
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Post by Kdancy » 18 Jan 2010, 18:13

Bob Andrews wrote:So Kerry, just to clarify, you're saying you DO have 3-phase service you're using, and not CONVERTING 3-phase motors to run on single- right?
No- no- no-- I don't have 3 phase service.
I am running my shop equipment that is 3 phase with a rotary phase converter. If I remember right, mine is rated to run 25hp total.

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Jeff Rice
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Post by Jeff Rice » 18 Jan 2010, 18:39

Like my original reply...
Size your rotary phase converter to the size motor you have and you should be OK.
Running my milling machine is easy.
Turn on the rotary phase converter motor.
Turn on the milling machine motor.
Make a mess.
Shut off the milling machine motor.
Shut off the rotary phase converter motor.
Clean up the mess.
Then go and explain what you messed up on the forum...
Jeff 8)


Kdancy wrote:
Bob Andrews wrote:So Kerry, just to clarify, you're saying you DO have 3-phase service you're using, and not CONVERTING 3-phase motors to run on single- right?


No- no- no-- I don't have 3 phase service.
I am running my shop equipment that is 3 phase with a rotary phase converter. If I remember right, mine is rated to run 25hp total.

Bob Andrews
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Post by Bob Andrews » 18 Jan 2010, 19:20

Kdancy wrote: No- no- no-- I don't have 3 phase service.
Ok Kerry, thanks. Sorry I got confused on that, I got it now.

PM response sent earlier today.
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