2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

THE place to document, in chronological order, ON-GOING progress/milestones of ANY high performance Studebaker project. Projects include any major/lengthy - repair/modification/resto/total rebuild OR an extensive build/development/modification of a high performance Studebaker part/system. Including as much info/many photos about/of your project is greatly appreciated! ON-GOING PROJECTS ONLY PLEASE.
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Jeff Rice
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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Jeff Rice » 24 Jun 2019, 11:02

Our sponsors are starting to promote their users! :!:

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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Jeff Rice » 26 Jun 2019, 09:38

The power of the Internet within the Studebaker world!
This was cross posted on a couple other forums to gain knowledge about an oil pan issue we are facing.
Great to see the Stude world step up to help our quest to compete at a high level at the 2019 Hot Rod Magazine Engine Masters Challenge!


(copy)
Stude truck engine info sought:
(copy)
V8 Truck Oil Pump Pick-Up
I am building a windage tray to fit a V8 truck oil pan. It will mimic the pan I have posted on the racing site. I noticed that the truck pan does not fit on my V8 mock-up dummy as the oil pickup is too long. Even though the pan is a higher volume it is slightly shallower with a longer deep end it seems. Is the truck pan pick-up indeed shorter? Does it depend on the series of the truck? Need some accurate input here.
JK

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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Jeff Rice » 26 Jun 2019, 09:39

Jim Pepper responded:

The 55 V8 pan in a coupe had a long deep end that was a little shallower than the regular pan. The oil pump was different in the fact that the pickup was swinging style and a less deep to accommodate the shallow pan. I have an oil pump made to work with that pan. It's yours if you want it.

Thank you, Jim Pepper!!!!

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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by 3x2stude » 28 Jun 2019, 22:44

Oil pan project. I am not sure what this V8 pan is. I was told it was a truck pan when I bought it on eBay for $25.00. I had no clue there were many different truck pans. I suspect it is a '55 passenger car but no matter, this pan is being used for the project. The oil pan windage tray is based on the same design as my trap door road race pan but longer. I had the tray laser cut as usual. The tray is formed and clears the pan well. The original plan was 100% coverage front to rear but the pan required that 5 louvres be eliminated. This still gives us 82% coverage of the crank bottom. Way more than my trap door pan. I got everything formed tonight. The screen needs some trimming and flame deburring and then assembly. More to follow over the week of the 4th.
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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by 3x2stude » 28 Jun 2019, 23:13

Here are tonight's efforts. The main tray is formed, tedious to bend one louver at a time. This only the second tray I've formed but I learned some things on the order of bends for next time. #2 & #4 main mounts are clamped in place. #2 & #4 bolted in place and #3 clamped in place. I plug weld the mounts with two welds per end but bolt two of the four welds in fit-up. The third photo shows the #3 main clamped in place after the others are bolted in. #2 & #4 get clamped in place on the motor but I can't reach the middle with clamps. More in another post in a few minutes.

JK
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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by 3x2stude » 28 Jun 2019, 23:37

All three mounts are bolted in. The main studs I use are Ford 351 Windsor oil pump studs from Moroso. They are actually made by "ARP" so I am confidant with the strength. ARP does not offer them as I can see. I do not use the either of the nuts Moroso supplies, I use ARP, more on that later. The studs are a smidgeon long so two washers are required to lock in the main cap. Then there needs to be an aluminum standoff spacer counter bored to get the tray to the proper elevation, Modified McMaster Carr item. I will get the directional screen dialed in and the mounting holes for it drilled next. I want all fabrication debris done, disassemble, clean, and assemble.


JK
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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Jeff Rice » 29 Jun 2019, 07:16

Your work is impeccable!
Your efforts are greatly appreciated.
What is learned will be useful to many other Studebaker performance enthusiasts.
Thank you!

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R5 Lark
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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by R5 Lark » 29 Jun 2019, 08:27

Very nice indeed. What about a crank scraper install? Is that allowed? Never seen that style pan shape. Must be rare.

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Mike Van Veghten
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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Mike Van Veghten » 29 Jun 2019, 10:29

No scraper needed.

If the louvers are close enough to the counter weights, they will act as scrapers.
I built much the same tray, with both out facing and inward facing louvers. The tray and louvers are plenty close to help strip oil from the rotating assembly.

The only difference, is that I made a louver "mold" or pattern of sorts. A male and female out of aluminum. I then used a small ball-peen hammer to push the tray material into the aluminum pattern. Just like louvers on a cars hood. All one piece, no welding required.

Mike

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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Jeff Rice » 29 Jun 2019, 12:18

Crank scrapers are allowed and we have on hand should we choose to use it.
Crank scrapers seem to work very well to keep the oil windage off the crankshaft.
There are two styles available right now. Teflon edged and straight steel.
Both kinds (straight steel and Teflon) need to be custom fit (because of aftermarket rods) for best performance.

http://crank-scrapers.com/prod01.html

This pan was chosen because of the extra volume it offered.
And being a dyno engine, there are no steering components interfering.
Getting the oil further away, even if just by a little bit will help.
The no modification rule was because of some smart competitors that built 24"+ rectangular pans.
Niagra Falls is more like it :wink:

Here's a pic of the Ishihara/Johnson Teflon crank scraper used on my engine (with splayed 4 bolt main caps)
Image

and a short video on crank scrapers and Stude engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW3QuIj ... e=youtu.be



R5 Lark wrote:
29 Jun 2019, 08:27
Very nice indeed. What about a crank scraper install? Is that allowed? Never seen that style pan shape. Must be rare.

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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Mike Van Veghten » 29 Jun 2019, 19:13

Again, done with some thought, a full tray with the louvers facing the right way, a "secondary" scraper isn't required.
Makes everything a lot easier, including gasketing the pan.
One part can do more than one job.

Mike

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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Jeff Rice » 29 Jun 2019, 19:53

Well said.
Share your experience here.
We would all like to know, learn about, and see your work.
Share with us, please.
Show us why a scraper isn't needed.
I can honestly say I do not know why a scraper is needed, either.
Haven't done a back to back test like a real engineer would before making statements.
All I said was it was allowed in the rules for the Engine Masters Challenge, said we had one available, and showed the reader what an installation looked like..

Mike Van Veghten wrote:
29 Jun 2019, 19:13
Again, done with some thought, a full tray with the louvers facing the right way, a "secondary" scraper isn't required.
Makes everything a lot easier, including gasketing the pan.
One part can do more than one job.

Mike

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Mike Van Veghten
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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Mike Van Veghten » 29 Jun 2019, 22:34

Hey Jeff -

Reread, I didn't say it "wasn't needed".
What I said was, you CAN make one item...do two jobs...haven't "you" ever multitasked at anything ?

As for being needed, I think you may be onto something.
Many years ago, I put a store bought version on my small Chevy in my 1950 Anglia. A 9.90sec. car. The car slowed. A small amount, but that car was very consistent. I made one for myself out of sheet stock, shaped slightly different. No E.T. change. I removed it...the E.T. went back to where it normally was. I never played with one again in the ten years with that car.

With building the Stude engine, all I did (after two longesh conversations with the guys at Canton about my Chevy), was to reverse the louvers to act as counter weight "only" scrapers...of sorts. As the oil leaks away from the rods, about 2/3 of it runs down the counter weights on each side. So now the inward facing louvers will help get that oil away from the rotating crankshaft faster...hopefully.

One item doing effectively, two jobs.

Mike

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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by Jeff Rice » 30 Jun 2019, 07:10

On that we agree.
My father used to tell me:
"When you build a bracket, make it do more than one thing... That way you will have less brackets".

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Re: 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

Post by 3x2stude » 04 Jul 2019, 16:42

Tray is done. Shown on my 4-bolt main block. Fasteners and supporting hardware are ARP and McMaster Carr. The pan needs a tweak for small dings and the rails need the holes re-dimpled so it will seal properly. I want to make a fixture for this but that's another thread. I should be able to ship to Dave on Monday or Tuesday. The oil pump pick-up is still a question. The one Jim P. sent is taller than the one in my motor. I will photo and post both pumps & pans tomorrow.


JK
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