'65 Daytona Experiment

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3x2stude
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by 3x2stude »

I've been back at the Stude experiment for a few months now. I have the frame back on the fixture again with the fixture modified a bit to accommodate installing a parallel 4-bar rear suspension on coil overs. Last summer when I shortened the frame and added the crossmember it was placed with intent of being able to do the 4-bar set-up.
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3x2stude
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by 3x2stude »

I am going to install a Ford 9-inch housing. I am mocking it all up just using 3" DOM tubing with the late model big bearing ends. This way I can more easily lay out the bracket locations and / or make modifications without messing up a housing. Once I get the frame back to a "roller" status I will take out the mockup and send it to a housing fabricator to duplicate using my brackets. I used 5/8" all-thread and tube spacers to space and align the 4-barr brackets on a 26" centerline. The tall, triangular brackets are for the coil over mounts.
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3x2stude
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by 3x2stude »

I attached the 4-bar brackets to the frame and positioned the axle at the 108.5" rear center line to fit up the bars. Note that I am not final welding anything at this point, just good quality tacks located in places that could be reached with a thin wheel. Tube spacers were again used to align the pairs of plates. Getting late, I'll post more tomorrow.

JK
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Bill in Hudson
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by Bill in Hudson »

Neat!!!
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3x2stude
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by 3x2stude »

I got the axle hanging on the bars and started figuring out the shock / spring mounts for the axle and frame. The 4-bar brackets I had laser cut but the shock mounts I bought from Art Morrison Inc. I mocked up some dummy coil overs with parts from McMaster Carr. I can adjust the length during mock-up so I can end up with the best fit. Ideally the bars should be level at ride height, but I have the axle up an extra inch for now giving me about 8" from bottom of frame to grade with 27" tall tires. I can easily go up as much as 2" if I need to. All of this will remain just tacked until the front end elevation is established.
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3x2stude
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by 3x2stude »

I laid out where to hole saw the shock mount tube through the rear frame rails. I was really nervous as a boo-boo here would be catastrophic. I drilled an 1/8" pilot hole for all four and when I eyeballed through them all I saw the wall on the far side. I did check and recheck about five times before drilling, :). I got the bar to fit through the boles with just deburring. Next is to establish the position side to side for the upper and lower mounts. The lower mounts are "hose" clamped to the axle and I simulated the top stud positions using a piece of Unistrut and some conduit hangers.
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3x2stude
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by 3x2stude »

I got the upper studs welded into the mounting tube and then tacked the tube into the holes in the frame. Next up is the rear panhard bar. It is fairly easy to do but takes some thought to get the geometry the best you can in the space you have. Don't forget I still need to get two, 2.5" exhaust pipes through the maze yet also.
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PackardV8
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by PackardV8 »

Beautiful work!
takes some thought to get the geometry the best you can in the space you have. Don't forget I still need to get two, 2.5" exhaust pipes through the maze yet also.
As you have seen by now, there's a reason 4-bar rear suspensions were not used on production cars.

jack vines
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Champion V8
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by Champion V8 »

Two things I wonder about, #1:

If you, like some modern brands, make the exhaust pipes flat in places where hight is limited, wouldn't that work? As not going down in diameter, just not have them round all the way?

& what's the bad result in having the front part of the linkage in one spot; the two pivoted at the axel going together at the frame so it's a triangle? (I had a friend doing that on his Dodge Lancer ages ago) Would it affect the pinion angle to much?
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3x2stude
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by 3x2stude »

There are many ways to build a coil over rear suspension. I chose a parallel four link. There is the option of a triangulated four link for better handling in a corner. There's three bar set up and the list goes on. This is a proven "hot rod" set up that will have some adjustability on ride height. It will never be a corner carving beast and I knew that going in. I'm not worried about the exhaust; I design stainless steel tubing systems for the pharmaceutical industry so I am used to putting ten pounds of sh#t in a five-pound bag, :). I'm pretty sure I'm going to want to shorten the driveshaft loop at some point. When I started the project I had no idea what direction I would go for the front suspension and that could still change. I'll post some more progress photos soon.

JK
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Jeff Rice
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by Jeff Rice »

Top shelf work!
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Champion V8
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by Champion V8 »

Alright, easily good enough & thanx for the answers!
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Jeff Rice
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by Jeff Rice »

3x2stude wrote: 13 Nov 2022, 17:17 <snip> There is the option of a triangulated four link for better handling in a corner. <snip>
JK
The triangulated 4-bar handles no better than a parallel 4-bar.
It just eliminates the panhard bar, which makes packaging easier (and saves a couple of pounds).
Jeff 8)
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3x2stude
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

Post by 3x2stude »

OK, so here is the panhard bar mocked up. The axle mount is already redesigned slightly to be more petite for exhaust clearance and for looks but the overall concept will be the same. The mock-up is 12ga. & 10ga. where the real deal will be 1/4" and 10ga. The frame mount design will remain the same but also be beefed up to 1/4" and 7ga. A gusset of some sort will tie the frame mount to the shock mount to eliminate frame rail flex. The bar itself is mocked up out of what I had lying around. It will be a larger diameter and have poly bushed ends like the front bars. I hope to get the prototype sketches turned into laser cutting files ASAP so I can get them ordered before Thanksgiving. Once the parts are ordered it's time to start carving up the front rails. I'll be taking lots of photos of that procedure. More on that later.
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3x2stude
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Re: '65 Daytona Experiment

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OK, while I am waiting for the actual production parts for the panhard bar to come back from the laser cutter I will switch focus to the front suspension. The new suspension will be a coil-over set up. I am using a design made by "Art Morrison Inc" for most of the components and adapting it to the stock frame using a technique borrowed from "Street Dod Engineering". The AM version is designed to be welded to 2" x 4" box tube frame rails that are level and parallel, the SRE version is similar but is grafted to the existing frame rails. It could be said that grafting on some other front stub would be less work but then when you think you're done you still need to get the rest of the front clip to fit the doner. This way the original bumper and core support mounts are still there.

We start off by cutting off any part of the front crossmember that sticks up above the top of the frame rail. I rattled can primed it all so layout lines will easily show. The goal here is to eliminate the spring pockets and narrow the frame rails to 31.00" outside width. The cross hatched area will be removed and boxed in.
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