Unusual Modified Intake Ports

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Sonny
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Unusual Modified Intake Ports

Post by Sonny »

OK, has anyone ever seen/done this? I wonder how a Stude head would like this. What do you guys think?

dimpled_intake_ports.jpg
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Jessie J.
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Re: Unusual Modified Intake Ports

Post by Jessie J. »

Siamesed ports? Now that is strange. Any information on what make of engine?
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Re: Unusual Modified Intake Ports

Post by Jeff Rice »

It does work.
Golfball technology.
On a humorous note, Mythbusters did a segment where they did this to the outside of an entire car to check the mileage.
As far as a Stude head goes, you can't get a CNC mill bit all the way in from either side, so a dimpler bit would have the same issue. I don't see where the cfm increase would be worth the added cost...
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Re: Unusual Modified Intake Ports

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Jessie J. wrote: 21 Jan 2022, 22:09 Siamesed ports? Now that is strange. Any information on what make of engine?
I ran across that picture from an argument on line, about dimples on a golf ball. It was interesting so I checked more. It appears, (and I surely didn't know), that there's a number of engines with siamese ports, the Packard straight 8 being one of them, the GM 8100 truck motor and a number of foreign cars, the MG is a big one. From what I've read, it's hell to get them to any real performance level. It has to do with one side "stealing" the flow and it looks like a custom intake and a head re-work for getting injectors close to the valves is just the start of the changes necessary. We already have enough to do for Stude heads, it looks like siamese intake ports are in the star wars category of "improvements".
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Re: Unusual Modified Intake Ports

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Jeff Rice wrote: 22 Jan 2022, 07:59 It does work.
Golfball technology.
On a humorous note, Mythbusters did a segment where they did this to the outside of an entire car to check the mileage.
As far as a Stude head goes, you can't get a CNC mill bit all the way in from either side, so a dimpler bit would have the same issue. I don't see where the cfm increase would be worth the added cost...
Yeah, I saw that MB program, amazing. BUT, does dimpling work in an intake port? Short answer, no. There's significant differences between golf balls and intake ports. The golf ball, (mass), is moving through the air, while in an engine, pressurized air is moving through a confined port. It does give some benefits, (although not if the entire port is dimpled), but, (there's always that "but"), the effect of friction negates the advantages. Here's a good article on a Jag engine, that was done by a fella for his Doctorate degree. https://cliosport.net/threads/does-dimp ... no.817453/
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Re: Unusual Modified Intake Ports

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Dimples in a 460 Ford head...


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Re: Unusual Modified Intake Ports

Post by Mike Van Veghten »

This is an old David Visard trick. And yes, when done properly...it DOES work.

When you have a gas flow, gas being air in this case, (and possibly liquid), you have a "boundary layer" . This is an area where there is little to no flow, tightly against the surface of, a port in this case.
See a golf ball (as noted). It does not matter which way the gas is flowing, a solid through the gas or the gas through the solid.

David proved that it DOES work, when...done properly. Air flow IS air flow. Many years ago, some Engineer put a bunch of tiny little wings on the rear of the roof of a Funny Car, to do the exact same thing (for down force in this case). "Vortex Generators" is the term for the little wings. Again, when done properly, this DOES work in the same way that the dimples work on a surface. It pulls the air right down solidly to the roof, or surface of the roof.
The NHRA said...NO Vortex Generators, period.

BUT, it's obviously a LOT of work for little gain, and overall...not worth the effort.

An interesting topic in any case to get things moving again.

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Re: Unusual Modified Intake Ports

Post by Sonny »

Sir Michael, did you read the article about the Jag? Physics is physics, the fella who did the testing is a Doctor of Physics. Golf balls flying through the air and wings on a car are a completely different set of physics. Now, unless Dave Visard would care to chime in here, I'm gonna go with your statement, ".... obviously a LOT of work for little gain, and overall...not worth the effort." I agree, a VERY interesting topic! Thanks, Mike!
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Re: Unusual Modified Intake Ports

Post by Jeff Rice »

Some additional info.....

https://youtu.be/GMmNKUlXXDs

And the Mythbusters car link:

https://youtu.be/VUiGhyHC-1A

And soma additional info from Adam Savage:

https://youtu.be/snNL5GgOq_c
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Re: Unusual Modified Intake Ports

Post by Sonny »

Thank you Jeffster. What I think we are getting confused here is that, objects moving through the atmosphere are more directly influenced by laminar flow characteristics. Air or fluid in a tube or pipe is more related to viscosity, velocity and pressure, (Bernoulli's principle). A fluid or air moving through a pipe, as expected, is subject to parasitic drag along all outer surfaces, as the center of the air/liquid is always moving at a higher rate than at it's outer surfaces. The principle is, "The total mechanical energy of the moving fluid comprising the gravitational potential energy of elevation, the energy associated with the fluid pressure and the kinetic energy of the fluid motion, remains constant." Meaning, in a perfect situation, without parasitic drag, the pressure and kinetic energy at where you put the fluid/air in the pipe is exactly the same at the other end of the pipe. The question here is, "Does the dimples reduce the parasitic drag on the outer surface of the air flow." Now, inside an engine air intake system, the interruption of air flow characteristics can be a good thing! But, according to the Doc, the dimples, not so good...
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